Friday, November 5, 2021

CFI - "Learning about Earth can't rump religion." Say what?

 Sharing some food for thought:

MPC:  I cannot imagine how transcendence of nature, sublimation, ‘glorification’ can possibly work.

(At the CFI Forum tread: Can Christianity be progressive? 

©citizenschallenge, 2021

transcendence = “Transcendence is the quality of being able to go beyond normal limits or boundaries.”


I believe MPC is missing the point.  Seems to me, it’s not about attaining some spiritual "transcendent" connection with nature, a la new age, or such.

It’s about realizing that Earth’s Evolution is an actual factual reality, it’s about realizing that all these folds within folds of harmonic complexity actually means something. 

Deeply appreciating that within myself there are direct roots to achievements hundreds of millions even billions of years ago. Learning about and understanding the outlines of those various folds within folds, that’s emotionally satisfying, so it’s worth it just for that, but there is more.

It’s about truly, deeply, viscerally, grasping that your brain and sense of self, evolved out of the mammalian animal brain and their sense of self, which in turn evolved out of an earlier brain and sense of self, with it’s roots in even more primitive ways of sensing/processing/acting found in the simplest of life forms.

The transcendence is not the object, it’s the learning and accumulating an understanding of the flowing complexity. 

Then as that journey matures the transcendence happens, as a result of all the accumulating mass of facts and learning coming together into a cohesive harmonic whole that makes sense.

I think that’s when the visceral sense of connection emerges. Is that transcendence? I don’t know, but I do know it feels good.

The fun thing is, this emergent holistic understanding affords an inner sense of solidity and belonging that goes way beyond what manmade promises can ever offer, even beyond the confines of my life. Isn’t that what people keep searching for?


(7.01) An Alternative Philosophical Perspective - “ Earth Centrism

(7.02) Appreciating the Physical Reality ~ Human Mindscape divide

(7.03) Being an element in Earth’s Pageant of Evolution

(7.04) It’s not a “ Body-Mind problem ” it’s an “ Ego-God problem .”


Being able to not just say, but feel that: “I am an element in the pageant of Evolution” - that goes a long way.


©citizenschallenge, 2021

Monday, October 18, 2021

Diary: Is anybody out there? (what is Earth Centrism?)

Should you care?  Do you care?

What is Earth Centrism anyways?

Earth Centrism is an Emergent Appreciation, when all those insights one’s collected come together into a tapestry, a pageant of life and circumstance so harmonic and graspable that it blossoms into a visceral feeling that infuses one’s body.

That’s when Earth Centrism begins to mean something.

I am an element in the flow of creation and it is good.

Earth Centrism, is a perspective on our human condition that’s based on the understanding that Earth is our fundamental touchstone with Physical Reality and that we are creatures of Earth’s own natural processes.

Earth Centrism comes from appreciating the “Human Mindscape ~ Physical Reality divide” and getting a handle on how the three Abrahamic traditions, that are fundamentally self-serving and self-obsessed, continues dominating philosophical though to this day. The Mind/Brain conundrum, the Hard Problem of Consciousness, are ancient arguments dressed up in modern language.

Earth Centrism is founded on the understanding that scientific study of the material world is our best window into understanding physical reality, because Science is, at it’s core, a set of rules for observing and recording and learning about our natural world that strives as much as possible to eliminate the human ego from its deliberations.

Science is founded on an unspoken understanding that we need each other to keep ourselves honest. It’s a community of educated, competitive, skeptical, experts who are constantly looking over each other’s shoulders. With fidelity to honesty being their Golden Rule.

I also contend that science, at its core, offers spiritual/mystical challenges, experiences and resolutions, well beyond the traditions of our human made, ego straddled, religions with their tunnel vision and that resentment towards Earth and learning.

Further reading for the curious:


         SEPTEMBER 1, 2018

Missing Key to Stephen Gould’s “Nonoverlapping Magisteria”

         DECEMBER 7, 2019

Introduction to Cc's Pageant of Evolution project.

         FEBRUARY 22, 2020

Diary - Musing on a half Century of Climate Science Awareness, 2020-02-22

         DECEMBER 30, 2020

Diary - Closing Out 2020 Defending Physical Reality

         APRIL 5, 2021

What is “Earth Centrism”?

         APRIL 8, 2021

Appreciating the Physical Reality ~ Human Mindscape divide

         APRIL 16, 2021

Being an Element in Earth’s Pageant of Evolution

         APRIL 27, 2021

Diary, "INDIVISIBLE" All hands on deck they say.  What do I have to offer?

         MAY 7, 2021

It’s Not A “Body-Mind Problem” - It’s An “Ego-God Problem.”

         Appreciating Evolution

Who Says Understanding Earth’s Evolution is Irrelevant?


         A Case For Reality - Donald Hoffman playing basketball in zero gravity.

Because apparently someone needs to make one. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


So that's the introduction to a letter I intend to send around.


I figure if they get through that introduction, then continue to look at some of the titles I shared, and then are still reading, I owe them a bit of the rest of the story:


My name is Peter Miesler and I write under the moniker of citizenschallenge.

Born in 1955, my family immigrated from Germany before I was a year old, I grew up bilingual/bicultural in Chicago, Illinois until 13, then we moved to San Francisco Bay Area where I attended Burlingame High School (class ’73), there I learned about Earth sciences and climate science, and the dawning realization that Earth was finite and that we humans and our burgeoning society was reaching limits to growth - in particular, Earth’s ability to sustain us.

I was a science loving bright eyed tree hugger who participated in the first Earth Day celebrations. I never became a scientist still I never lost my love for science and learning and have proactively kept up on homework and scientific news, so I am familiar with the scientific trajectory and findings of this past century and these past decades, where amazing insight have been achieved.

Here in 2021, our society and Earth is living out my worst fears, and I’m a bit startled that mine and younger generations actually allowed things to go so terribly off the rails. I expected better. Still here we are. Today, in the short term, the one thing I know is that if the Democratic Party doesn’t start changing minds, we will continue losing and watch the corporate oligarch’s well executed decades long hostile takeover of our government consummated.

Constructively confronting off-the-rails thinking will require the “liberal” crowd (science based rationalists, humanists, pluralists, people of empathy) to rediscover themselves. To regain enough self-assurance and clarity to enable us to constructively confront the unhinged, honesty hating, corporate money fueled, reactionary extremism of today’s Republican Party.

The Democrat Party needs to worry less about donations and more about helping change minds and engaging citizens to care enough to try to stand up to the ever more scary bullies that the Republicans are brainwashing, grooming and unleashing on us.

The Democratic Party needs to start proactively nurturing a real grassroots community spirit, by helping us concerned individual citizens network with each other, so we can reinforce each other and better develop constructive ways to confront the various Republican campaigns of willful belligerent ignorance.

A healthy democracy demands an informed and engaged citizenry!

But how to change minds if there’s nothing to offer as an alternative?

My experience has been a lifetime of living and working, most of it outdoors in southwest Colorado. All the while learning about Earth’s biosphere, our evolution, the birth of geology, then biology, then the dance of Evolution between the two.

Consider the many startling realizations along the way, beyond stardust, we carry genetic codes and biological machinery within our blood that trace back, not just millions of years, but billions. We are part of an incredible biosphere and web of life and an ongoing adventure, born of wonderful changing environments, that we are only beginning to comprehend.

I’ve discovered there’s a profound difference between hearing that you are an element in the pageant of evolution - yeah, yeah, so what? It’s quite another experience, to have an actual visceral appreciation for the majesty behind the evolutionary reality of who we are inside .

Sure beats the paper thin salvation holy books and pick-pocket preachers offer. Like the difference between a postcard and being there. But, to appreciate all that requires a serious honest curiosity and proactively learning.

I’ve also discovered that a key to understanding the roots of human folly, is recognizing our fundamental inability to get beyond lip service, when it comes to actually appreciating the Human Mindscape ~ Physical Reality divide and its implications.

Rather simple, but quite deep once we start realizing how much western philosophy has been shackled by the age old egocentric blinders that all three Abrahamic faiths straddled western society with.

All that led to the contrived mind/brain problem, which is more of an Ego/God problem than any biological conundrum.

If any of that resonates with you, please explore and share these writing and my student resource: “The Case For Reality” .

I can’t help believing there’s a group of thinkers and writers who are looking for someone like me to join them.

I keep hoping someone will help me find them. 

 






Sunday, October 10, 2021

Diary, responding to Dr. J.W. Geier (21-10-09) It's not the sun, or bad models.

©citizenschallenge 2021 

John W. Geier MD, commented at 

Robert Holmes aka 1000Frolly PhD. Conman is, as Conman does.

... 

The main science issue is that the Earth cannot act as its own experimental control.

Computer models of the Earth’s climate reflect the biases and knowledge gaps of the modellers and amplify errors over time.

It is unfortunate that the other terrestrial planets in this solar system are quite different from Earth.

The climate is a holistic function of the stellar flux, atmosphere and distribution of land and ocean on a planet.


september 28, 2021 at 10:53 PM

©citizenschallenge 2021


{ I’ve been busy with chores, so not much going on at my blogs.  Getting an intelligent comment, let alone any serious discussion, is fairly rare, so sometimes there's many days where I don't bother checking my comments folder.  


This morning I found a comment from a couple weeks ago (how the time flies) it was refreshingly coherent, at least against the backdrop of what I usually get, and it offers me something worth discussing. The sort of comment I feel obligated to post and respond it.  


Dr. John Geier's comment fits that bill.  Even if I believe he's being deceptive, and missing the forest for the trees.  Thing is, I imagine he might well be deceiving himself first and foremost.  Which is why I want to try and explain what he's missing, hopefully doing a little better than the time before.}


©citizenschallenge 1993citizenschallenge responds to Dr. Geier …


With all due respect Dr. Geier, that is nonsense. We know plenty well what is going on within our global heat and moisture distribution engine. Science has been intensely studying our atmosphere since the 1940s - nature is not some trickster and we don't need another Earth to experiment with in order to understand how our Earth's geosphere/biosphere behaves.


Why do you set impossible expectations? 

Sunday, September 12, 2021

You are the eyes of the world. (workbook #e)

An exploration into a different sort of perspective on the god ~ human relationship, one that starts with a mind experiment and ends in a beautiful mythical suggestion.

 

“Humanity is the most exquisite example of God’s need and desire to know itself.”

It begins with imagining creation from a god’s eye view.  If a god there be, what would, what could that god actually know about the universe? 

There was nothing to sense in the beginning.  Besides how could a substance-less God sense anything?

Seems to me, only by creating something, was there anything for god to observe.  But what would god observe with? 

It occurred to me that god could only experience its own creation, through the structures of that creation.  

Starting right at the 'big bang' along side energy, gravity, time and the ever evolving complexity of interactions in a growing cosmos.  

Wednesday, September 8, 2021

Evolution Flips Abrahamic God Outside In. (workbook #d)

One of the things I've gotten out of my life long enthusiasm for learning about my human body, my mind/spirit, other people, other creatures and landscapes, Earth and her Evolution, is that my understanding of the traditional Abrahamic God has been flipped outside in.

I came to realize “God” isn’t to be found out there in the heavens. Our “Gods” are to be found deep within ourselves and our evolutionary roots, our DNA being testament to the existence of these roots.  As is our human ego, with its origins going way back into our mammalian heritage.


This evolutionary ground up perspective has instilled an Earth Centrist attitude because this living planet is my touch stone with reality and her evolutionary history informs my day in every way.

Take a moment to consider that we humans, you, me, are actually born out of a parade of generations, before generations.  The number of our grandparents is inconceivable. Try imagining where it all began, from where we are today.  Humanity is a fulfillment of life’s ageless way of striving to improve perceptual, manipulatory and processing abilities, in order to better live a better day.

On a personal level a couple months back I hit upon words that helped me grasp specifically what it was in me that made me such a unique individual. I possess a genuine visceral awareness for being an element in the flow of Earth’s Evolution - and that changes everything about how I perceive today and tomorrow.  Whether by a Creator, or by loaded dice, is irrelevant, either way we are the product of deep time moving ever forward with determination.

I am deeply grateful for being the eyes of the universe - a creature that can reflect on the wonder that is Earth and my own spark of being here within all that majesty. An appreciation for the Pageant of Evolution that goes well beyond the typical mental post card most possess.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Saturday, September 4, 2021

Considering God as a creation of our own human minds. (workbook #c)

This comes from a conversation over at CenterForInquiry discussion forum under the far ranging thread headed: Why Did You Choose Atheism?  It’s part of my workshop.



post #117 - Sep 4, 8:33 PM


Write4u comments: “Evolution is established science.”

I offered a slight adjustment.

Citizenschallenge:  Evolution is established by scientific evidence.    : -)

Now if only we really let that lesson soak in, as we think about who and what we are.

As for God, I would suggest that the evidence points to God being the product of our minds. And where did that come from you ask?

Wednesday, September 1, 2021

Responding to a Christian's missive. (workbook #b)


Unknown commented on "An Honest Look at The Limits To Growth (Ugo Bardi)" 

 Awaiting moderation.

Comment Rejected… on the grounds that I won’t be a billboard, I’m looking for serious dialogue!

but I will build a response post around it.


Since Mr. Unknown’s missive comes at a good time and I’m in this ‘workshop mode’  I’m going to dissect his allegations as an exercise in explaining my ideas.  He and others are invited to share responses, here or at the CFI Forum.


Aug 25, 2021:  Unknown commented on "An Honest Look at The Limits To Growth (Ugo Bardi)"

Mr Unknown writes:  Citizenschallenge, you have been tricked into believing the creator of this earth has limits to what he can and will do. 

___________


The “creator” of this Earth is star dust and the work of billions of years worth of physics, geology, biology and cumulative change over time, that is Evolution.

___________


Cc, I used to believe as you do and so started a recycling center in 1974 in N. Calif in southern Humboldt County. I wanted to save the planet but i had much much more to learn and i did. 

___________


Yes we certainly have plenty to learn when we’re still green behind the ears - oh but what fun years those are.  Fortunately, usually I took grandpa's advice: “Listen!  Even if you already know it all.  Shut up and listen, you just might learn something.”

You have created your own version of who I am, it does not fit the reality.  

Although I’ll admit I know about Humboldt county back in da day: “sinsemilla, send some to me-ia”    ;-). 

And okay it would have been nice to be part of helping save our biosphere, the planet will get by.  The global support systems we depend on, not so much.  It’s truly heartbreaking witnessing how horribly self-centered and greedy and self-destructive our generation wound up being.  Even after all we had learned about the ways of Earth.  

But, that’s another story.

___________


It took total surrender to the only one who rules heaven and earth. 

___________


What’s that even mean “taking total surrender”?  

Total surrender to the Bible?  Total surrender to a slick talking preacher who got his hooks into ya?

I didn’t need to surrender to anything, all I needed was to open my eyes and senses to observing, honest curiosity, learning and contemplating nature and Mother Earth.  

Observing, acting, thinking, learning, loving it and so on.   

It’s amazing how much mother nature can teach those who pay attention, sort of like the Bible told me: “Seek and ye shall find.”  Scientist sure have learned a great deal, we should pay attention to them.

Tuesday, August 31, 2021

Religion, easy as ... (workbook #a)

Think about it, aren't the Abrahamic religions all about self-centeredness - ours as well as God’s? Worse is their contempt and disregard for the sovereignty of our Earth’s biosphere, her other inhabitants and the reality of our Evolutionary origins. 

August 30th, 2020, an update on my 

Hoffman Playing Basketball in Zero-gravity project

I’ve one last assignment before I can put the bow on my Hoffman Playing Basketball in Zero-gravity project.  But it’s a challenging topic, easy to avoid and procrastinate, plus I’ve had a very busy summer, still do. 


On the other hand, time and experience has been clarifying these fundamental questions most others have also pondered, so of course I want to enunciate and share my perspective, while I'm still around. 


I want my final installment to Hoffman's project to be a sharp essay, so have decided to go slow, share the introduction, and basically conduct a personal workshop and hopefully by doing it online, it'll push me to completing the final details in style.   


It would be wonderful if some others would chime in, and in fact, I have a thread started over at CFI's CenterForInquiryForum and invite you to share any comments or general thoughts over there.



This isn’t for everyone, but if concepts such as Earth Centrism, Evolution, deep time and Earth as a physical geo-biological entity, resonates, you may find this fascinating.  


Introduction


I’ll wager that if you took some time to think about it, you’d acknowledge that on a fundamental level the Abrahamic religions are all about self-centeredness - ours as well as God’s.

These religions were founded on the basis of self-interest, they were focused on selected kernels of knowledge, born of an aggressive insecurity, and supported by a passionate sense of self-important certitude. Usually with empire building in mind while reeking with hostility towards outsiders, other teachers and learning.  They did achieve results.

All the while pretty much ignoring the sovereignty of our Earth’s biosphere, her other inhabitants and the reality of our Evolutionary origins.

Consider, within the Abrahamic tradition our planet’s life support system and her inhabitants never rise above something to exploit until we suck it dry, then we move on to the next bonanza.

Whereas for me, Earth, her creatures and biosphere, her Evolution, these are my touchstones with physical reality. I feel time flowing through me as I travel through my days. I live within a mindscape that’s filled with an awareness of time in its entire spectrum, from microseconds, to my heart beat, to the days, seasons, years and decades, on to the eons of Evolution.