Diary, responding to Dr. J.W. Geier (21-10-09) It's not the sun, or bad models.

 

John W. Geier MD, commented at 

Robert Holmes aka 1000Frolly PhD. Conman is, as Conman does.

... 

The main science issue is that the Earth cannot act as its own experimental control.

Computer models of the Earth’s climate reflect the biases and knowledge gaps of the modellers and amplify errors over time.

It is unfortunate that the other terrestrial planets in this solar system are quite different from Earth.

The climate is a holistic function of the stellar flux, atmosphere and distribution of land and ocean on a planet.

september 28, 2021 at 10:53 PM

{ I’ve been busy with chores, so not much going on at my blogs.  Getting an intelligent comment, let alone any serious discussion, is fairly rare, so sometimes there's many days where I don't bother checking my comments folder.  

This morning I found a comment from a couple weeks ago (how the time flies) it was refreshingly coherent, at least against the backdrop of what I usually get, and it offers me something worth discussing. The sort of comment I feel obligated to post and respond it.  

Dr. John Geier's comment fits that bill.  Even if I believe he's being deceptive, and missing the forest for the trees.  Thing is, I imagine he might well be deceiving himself first and foremost.  Which is why I want to try and explain what he's missing, hopefully doing a little better than the time before.}

citizenschallenge responds to Dr. Geier …

With all due respect Dr. Geier, that is nonsense. We know plenty well what is going on within our global heat and moisture distribution engine. Science has been intensely studying our atmosphere since the 1940s - nature is not some trickster and we don't need another Earth to experiment with in order to understand how our Earth's geosphere/biosphere behaves.

Why do you set impossible expectations? 

Anonymous12/12 (Veizer?) drops by with more complaints.

I received some more comments from Anonymous12/12 yesterday.  Same games, so once again his comments get rejected.  Though, I’m certainly not going to ignore them because they so perfectly represent what rational people are up against and what I’m trying to write about.  

Anonymous12/12’s three comments offer another good vehicle for me to try to convey what I’ve learned from decades of listening to the disingenuous contrarian monologue.  Mostly I’m addressing Anonymous12/12, but occasionally I switch my attention to readers, all of it is food for thought.  The embedded images show that I haven’t changed any of his words.  

What's the point.

Dissect the debate, understand what they are going to come at you with.
  
Be prepared! 

(latest edit Jan 5, near midnight)

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Unknown at 11:56 AM  (2/3)

(click on image)

Peter, Firstly happy new year to you. 

Hopefully less insults hypocrisy about insults 

when there have been many more from your side*. 

_______________________________________________

*I think not!

The irony of your type complaining about hypocrisy isn’t lost on me.  

Yes, I did say your previous comment typified the behavior of an Intellectual Juvenile Delinquent.  After reading these comments, I see nothing has changed. 

You continue exhibiting a certain thuggish behavior.  
Why not respect my rules?

I’m ready for a serious dialogue, but you aren’t offering one, you have games on your mind.

A good faith dialogue is upfront and with a free exchange of information and references done in plain english.  That said, I will share your comments on my terms and with appropriate commentary.

_______________________________________________

Can you please send a copy of the interaction between 14 scientists and the work of Drs Shaviv & Veizer the link isn’t working. 

_______________________________________________

Send a copy?  Sure, give me an email address.

Or you could look for yourself: https://stephenschneider.stanford.edu/Climate/Climate_Science/Contrarians.html  (the following is a fraction of what you can find over there.)

Examining an Intellectual Juvenile Delinquent, ‘Anonymous, Dec12, 2019

This video is dedicated to Moscow Mitch McConnell

I’m sick and tired, quite literally. Many decades of burning the candle at both ends adds up, now thee ol’body ain’t as tough as it used to be and the extreme stress of watching us destroying what hopes we had for an already guaranteed difficult future are manifesting themselves in physical illness.  

Thus rather than continuing with chores or getting back to working on my Black Tuesday videos and blog post, I wound up going down for the count Thursday afternoon.  Tough times for empathic people who appreciate what we are doing to our planet, all its creatures, not to mention our children’s futures.

Guess this is by way of explaining why I’m not pulling punches in the following virtual debate with Anonymous12/12.  

Why virtual debate?  Because the cowards always hide, it’s been the only way to have a constructive debate with the GOP science slandering contrarian types. 

This post is built around a comment I received Thursday (12/12/19) night.  

(click on images for better view)

I rejected the two part comment because I won’t be played and used as a propaganda billboard for liars.  If you have something to say, or a link to share, be upfront with it, don’t try sneaking in tricky-dick coding.  

If you gotta hide it, you reveal yourself to be a dishonest political operative rather than constructive thinker having a serious discussion.  

_____________________________________________________

Anonymous 12/12 starts out with:  

Peter, Having looked at some links your partner in crime here has links showing a clear political motive. 

I find it amusing you finish citing propaganda when that is actually what you represent. Let us try to be civil then and stick to the science.   {I added the highlight colors} c

______________________________________________

Interesting way to start a discussion. 

Observations regarding Sept 7th, Anonymous Comment

I received the following comment which didn't pass muster. 

I accept constructive comments and challenges.  If you want to challenge what I've written do so.  But yelling about rationalists being like a Nazi cult, and such further disconnected from reality ranting ain't an intelligent discussion. Your comment is being REJECTED!

That doesn't mean I'm not willing to discuss it:

COMMENT READS: After looking at the name calling dialog by the two attackers of Dr Holmes 

Can you offer any specifics we can calmly discuss?

and their ferocious need to out him and chastise him for his work and opinions. 

Hold on.  There is a YouTube Channel that goes under the name of Frolly1000  - it spews slander and scientific ignorance (lies and misrepresentations) along with a load of contempt.  It has to do with his politicizing climate science and scaring people out of learning about it in a serious constructive manner.

What’s wrong with outing such a malicious fraud?  

Why shouldn’t we be curious about who the character is behind such a devious attack on serious honest scientists and the work they have done? 

I agree with Dr.Holmes, this climate hysteria has become more of a cult or religion. 

Diary July 31, 2019, Considering Jim Steele's deceptive bullshit.

This past winter and spring I spent a good deal of time dissecting Jim Steele’s malicious game of deliberate deception in his Pacifica Tribune’s “What’s Natural?’ column and it was taking its toll.

On the one hand, I like the work of studying others’ writings - investigating and searching out new information, double checking my own assertions and recollections, learning, relearning and taking the time to examine, recognize and expose the ‘mechanics of deception’ in action.  In that way it’s my classroom and a positive exercise.

On the other hand, it’s profoundly depressing coming face to face with these real life intellectual zombies that never ever seem to change.  They pompously cry for debate, yet try having a serious constructive dialogue with them.  First comes the attitudes of superiority, then the dismissal, then avoidance, then insults and derision, then they run and hide, but never an adult discussion.  

And no one seems to care much!  Free pass for all.  So they get away with it, over and over like a spreading pathogen, and no one seems capable of doing anything about it.

Ask questions, make challenges, explain the simple and well understood science of Earth’s climate.  Write and rewrite, present evidence, teach, reason, strive till you're blue.  Yet not a word is heard, not a lesson is absorbed.   Absolutely nothing gets incorporated into their understanding.  Utter hopelessness.

Contrarian arguments today are exactly the same as they were ten, twenty and more years ago.  It’s like the immortal words of Homer Simpson: “No Marge, I didn’t learn a thing.”

Robert Holmes 1000Frolly PhD slinks away.

An update for those who are curious, Dr. Robert Holmes aka 1000Frolly, the character who jumped into the middle of my breakfast pounding his chest with all cap threats a couple weeks back, has slithered away back into the night.  

Refusing to let me know, the case number, name of alleged court or date of his supposed filling, or even what his alleged suit against one Bob Trenwith is about.  Nor what the heck it has to do with me.  

Seems to me if a normal person were to have actually filed a suit and then threaten others with it, they would be willing to share the particulars.  Or at least explain why one is being contacted and threatened.  Seems only decent.  Not to mention civil and legal.

But, instead of simple civil adult information, Dr Frolly Holmes followed up with an email sporting the official Federation University Australia letterhead, with its oaths of confidentiality, etc, etc,  along with a lot of condescending avoidance of my questions and the issues - So typical, these people always feel more comfortable keeping it within their own fantasy projections, rather than reality and the issues at hand.

Dr.Holmes aka 1000Frolly sends me an email (updated June 17, 9pm)

This morning I received this from Dr. Robert Ian Holmes:

clink on images for better viewing

Dr. Robert Holmes,

Let’s be clear, you are the malicious YouTube slandering liar Frolly1000.  Your letter arrived unsolicited and I’m not bound to any confidentiality with you, in fact you can be sure my dialogue with you will be carried out in public.  

I’m curious, was your letter written on University time?  How would the Federation University of Australia feel about you using their logo as a shield to impress and intimidate?

Dr. Robert Holmes aka 1000Frolly why are you threatening me?

Though I was given the tip years ago, it wasn't until this morning that I'm able to confirm that the prodigious YouTube liar and AGW science slandering 1000Frolly is in fact one Dr. Robert Ian Holmes from Australia.  (not to be mistaken with Hulme!)  

A 'scientist' with rather tarnished credentials thanks to his efforts to convince folks that CO2 science is mistaken.  Writing that's so disconnected, even climate science contrarians dismiss him.   

Welcome to the Age of Trumpkins - where truth is despised and bullying is everything.  This is what decades of liberal intellectual complacency has achieved for our complex global society.

Right now I really need to focus on a more important writing project, so can’t let this sidetrack me more than it already has.  Besides it would be good to let this steep awhile, since I have a number of responses and questions for this Dr. Robert Ian Holmes, whom I actually had not had time for in years, but who seems scintillatingly upset at a couple confusing comments Bob Trenwith recently dropped at WUWTW.

“Inciting mob violence”?  Seriously Dr Holmes?  What are you talking about?  Please.  Or are we simply dealing with another frantic drama queen, . . . or what?  Can you explain yourself?

For now I'm going to settle for a trip down memory lane and a look at my tenuous involvement in this Dr. Holmes/1000frolly/Monckton distraction.